Football, Podcast

Buckeye Weekly: Answering 9 Questions About The Michigan Sign-Stealing Scandal

In this episode of the Buckeye Weekly Podcast, Tony Gerdeman and Tom Orr address nine important questions from the listeners about the ongoing Michigan sign-stealing scandal.

You can find an automated (and unedited) transcript of this show below the video player.

1. Would this be the biggest on-field cheating scandal in college football history?

2. Is there a legitimate “legal” defense for the Michigan coaches?

3. Will there be vacated wins in Michigan’s future?

4. What would the vacated wins mean for possible Gold Pants in 2021 and 2022?

5. What Mel Gibson movie best suits Jim Harbaugh?

6. How typical is it for the offensive playcaller and defensive playcaller to both be on the sideline like they were for Michigan?

7. How do Michigan’s future opponents prepare for them knowing what they now know?

8. What should be made of the Jim Harbaugh contract news?

9. Could this lead to Ohio State stealing some Michigan commits?

Tony Gerdeman 0:00
Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Buckeye weekly podcast. I am Tony Gerdeman. Here as always with Tom Orr. Tom. How’s it going?

Tom Orr 0:09
Oh, Tony, it’s a Michigan Monday and Michigan didn’t play over the weekend. So you had a great idea, which is, why didn’t we didn’t even ask people for Michigan questions we just said, what questions do you have? And it turns out, Tony, they have some questions about Michigan, the Michigan football program, the status of the Michigan football program, the potential future of the Michigan football program. Great news, we get to talk about Michigan on Michigan Monday.

Tony Gerdeman 0:37
Well, there you go. And just because there’s no game doesn’t mean people still aren’t interested in what is going on in the state up north. So yeah, let’s get started. Let’s go.

Tom Orr 0:47
All right, from AT T Kirkpatrick 09. No need for any more Michigan Mondays, no need to enable what has been proven to be the biggest onfield cheating scandal in college football history. I think the verb tense there is being proven is probably an important one to emphasize. Because I don’t feel like this. This is certainly not has not been proven. Let’s, you know, could potentially be proven, could be on the way to be proven. You know, I think I could get with all of those. Just want to make sure we’re being real clear on our verb tenses here.

Tony Gerdeman 1:27
Yeah, if all of this comes true that I think maybe a Another question is, if all of this is real and is happening, is it the biggest on field cheating scandal in college football history, and you probably have to make it modern history, because who knows what kind of there’s all kinds of cheating going on. And the days of let’s bring in the coal miners, let’s bring in the factory workers need make the 32 year old men beat up on 16 year old children like that was some on field cheating back in the day, as well. But this one would be I mean, name something that even comes close? If everything that is being reported? Becomes is true, and is fact i?

Tom Orr 2:11
What else is there? Yeah, it’s, I mean, if everything that’s being reported, and this is very big, if if everything that’s being reported, or rumored is then you might be at that level of I mean, I have not done a great historical deep dive, this should be a great thing to talk to Matt Brown of the extra points newsletter about he is a great college football historian, he might have a better sense of some of this stuff. But, you know, some of the stuff that has been rumored and again, I will repeat has been rumored is, you know, in addition to all the stuff that Ohio State fans are probably familiar with. Did Was there some sort of sharing of illegally obtained information with the South Carolina football program, and then this spreads it to now you’re, you’re involving other conferences, you’re involving other games? You’re you know, I mean, this is, this is a you know, it’s like WikiLeaks was kind of a, you know, it was like a really stupid, I mean, it was a really stupid scandal that, you know, turn into a relatively big thing, but it involved Wake Forest, so it was only kind of big. This is, you know, if this is what caused Tennessee to lose that game against South Carolina last year, if that, if that played some kind of role in that, then you’re screwing with another school, and another fan base, you know, and I think there’s a little bit of where else is this going to go? How far does this reach? Because this, you know, I mean, I know feels like we’ve been talking about this forever, but it still feels like we’re a little bit in the early days and all this and none? Well, I was gonna say none, some of this has now been more or less admitted. So some of its kind of proven to some degree, but a lot of the stuff it feels like a lot of the more salacious stuff is not yet in the proven category, or even the broadly proven category. So I’m gonna I’m gonna say like, if, if this all all this stuff is true, and I’m not expecting everything to be true, because that’s just kind of how this works. But if a broad swath of what has been reported or rumored is true, then you might be in the biggest cheating scandal in onfield cheating scandal in college football history.

Tony Gerdeman 4:30
Yeah, I’m looking back to see how long has this been going on in terms of being in the national news? And I don’t even believe it’s two weeks yet because I went back and looked at the the podcasts that we’ve done, and there’s one on October 19. That was like the first time when once this started breaking is when Marc Givler and I did a show so it hasn’t hasn’t been that long. And I know when people are when the people have been when you get news, like three days in a row and then you’re like go Oh, man, this is crazy. And then you don’t get any news for a while you’re like, Oh, I guess, maybe it’s over? Oh, well, and then you kind of move on or when something else comes out, you’re like, oh, that’s, that’s old news. And it’s like, well, it’s old news. But there’s confirmation there, or there’s clarification there. And I don’t really think any of us is old, because it is still happening. And it’s still, like I said, it’s not even two weeks old, necessarily, in terms of when we found out about this. So I think it’s just our the speed at which we get accustomed to news is faster than ever. And so it’s like, well, I need more news. Where’s the news? Where’s the news? I’m looking for the news. And sometimes you just gotta wait.

Tom Orr 5:41
Yeah, and I mean, I’ve mentioned this before on this show and other shows, but you’re getting into some of the stuff that is being rumored and being reported right now has potentially legal implications and beyond just like, hey, that’s cheating in a football sense. So that’s when you end up getting legal departments involved in a much more direct way in some of your reporting and stuff has to get proven out and you have to have, you know, maybe a higher standard of of proof before you can report something. So yeah, I think you need to recognize that you’re not going to just get your little dopamine hit of new news. You know what, you know, the mean, like, wake up, honey, new new Michigan news just dropped. Like, that’s not that’s not just gonna happen every three hours. This is I mean, it was I think, a Thursday night. So we’re talking like, what, 10 days, 11 days something like this. So this is still very early days in all of this stuff. And if you think this is slow, oh, friends, wait till the NCAA has to take control of things. You think this is slow. We’ll see it and 2028 next one from at Ole underscore Pete 1926. And just based on this, I thought, based on the way this this question is phrased, I thought I need to look up whether this person is Ohio State fan or a Michigan fan. He is an Ohio State fan his his bio Twitter bio a tremendous Twitter bio incredible name drop at the end here. Buckeye since the days of Archie Cardinal since the days of vinegar, Ben Mozelle, former Mets pitcher owner of one of the great names in baseball history, vinegar bend Mozelle, he says here’s my legal defense. Sure, we were getting great intel from stallion, but we had no idea he was using improper means to gather the information does not work. If people start talking coaches access the video files a money trail goes back to Michigan.

Tony Gerdeman 7:26
Yeah, the attempt to or perhaps the reality of keeping Jim Harbaugh out of the loop of this, or even keeping the coordinators out of the loop of this kind of stallions. Looks like he was trying or like you’re trying to keep the head coach from being aware of this. But when you’re on the sideline, talking to the coordinators, talking to the head coach, the lack of awareness meters have to be like, you gotta get a goose them to believe them? I think it’s not. And don’t think it’s believable that the coordinators were just accepting of the Intel and not asking, Where did it go? And if the answer is, I got it from TV and the all 22 everything single coach watches all 22 though they know what’s available there. What isn’t. And all of the coaches have seen television, so they know what’s available there as well. Now, what it could mean, or what the the reasoning could be. And is that? Well, it’s not. It’s not 100% accurate, but it’s still, you know, I’m able to get 60% of the signals, let’s use that information as 60% of the signals from without going to games just from the all 22 and a TVs if that’s what he’s telling the coaches. And it’s still Hey, you know what, that’s information. That’s the term we’re hearing lately that is being thrust upon us as code breaking, rather than sign stealing. So you know, that’s just that’s just breaking the code, getting stuff from the alt 22 and a TV. And if the coaches are like, well, you know what, and he’s, you know, 60% of the time, it works every time, that sort of thing. If counter stallions is actually I won’t go into the Cologne name, but if it’s more like that, where, yeah, we know it’s not gonna be 100% accurate. But hey, if you see something that you recognize, you tell us, and then I think there’s some plausible deniability for the assistance in that regard in terms of accepting the the Intel and E and asking where it comes from, and being told TV and all 22. And then then it gets into a little bit of that. Well, you know, the assistants are like, well, this is a military military guy. So, you know, he’s, I’m sure he’s deciphered, much more difficult codes than football. All sidelines.

Tom Orr 10:01
Yeah, I mean, unfortunately, I loved I love the idea of codebreakers instead of sign Steelers like, like, this is like the Navajo code talkers on the sidelines for Michigan, that’s tremendous. This does have a real if you didn’t, you know, you didn’t want to ask too many questions kind of vibe, because, like you said, you know, what’s available on TV? And you know, what’s available on the old 22? Because you’re watching the old 22. You know, I mean, I’ve seen a lot of people online saying, No, you get off in the old 22. If you have watched all 22, you know, you know, you cannot get everything from the old 22 You can probably get something. And there was one of the one of the reports that very obviously was sourced from the Michigan side of things, made it real clear. Oh, boy. Well, he was stealing stuff from TV copies in 2017. Okay, has he gotten substantially better at it? Since 2017? It feels like the answer is probably yes. Because now he’s on the sideline and talking to the coordinator. So it feels like a real but relatively natural follow up question was like, Hey, you seem like you’re way better at this than it used to be? What are you doing differently? Because they’re not showing any more signs on the old 22 than they did a few years ago? Or on the TV copy than it did a few years ago? How did you get so much better? And if the answer is Oh, you don’t know the answer, then that feels like that’s kind of an answer. So yeah. Again, this is something where the you got to sort of, you know, what we’ll see, I think there’s going to be a lot of, you know, as they go through emails and stuff, and they go through texts, and they go through what computer access logs or whatever else you may have more firm answers on, you know, this happened, this didn’t happen. Gotta remember Jim Tressel. The whole, the whole case against Jim Tressel, hinged on one email that he had just sort of acknowledged from someone that was that was, uh, that was the entire thing. So it’ll be interesting to see what information comes out. There was he mentioned the money trail at the end of this. That is the old journalism, you know, follow the money. That’s generally the old journalism rule of thumb. This time, according to some of the stuff that has come out. Again, the sort of Michigan side reporting, I think it was the Dan Murphy ESPN report from the with the Division Three coach that I’m, I mean, sure felt like it was coming from the Michigan side of things, made a point and you know, hey, he paid me with his own Venmo. It was, it was just him. And, you know, how traceable is that money? Can that money be traced back to Michigan, I think that might not be as fruitful a and a path for people to pursue. But we’ll we’ll see, as this all plays out,

Tony Gerdeman 12:35
in terms of the coaches not wanting to know I think what Conor stallions could just start saying is, well, the algorithm and as soon as you say algorithm, the coaches are the eyes glaze over and like whatever just continue to do your nerd stuff, that sort of thing.

Tom Orr 12:50
That’s that is always possible. It just just say AI and not only then will the coaches leave you away, leave you alone, you’ll have a bunch of like venture capital people like swinging through the windows, like a like a SWAT team, trying to give you money. So it could be it could be win win for under science there. Next one at VW Chad W. The opposite of win win. Do you see guys? Do you guys see vacated wins in Michigan’s future and a related one from at jerk Zeus. If they vacate Michigan wins, do the Ohio State players get the gold pants for the previous two years? So I think you know if this sort of proceeds to the point where this is an NCAA case, and the NCAA feels that they have sick, you know, enough proof that hey, this happened, you know, at that point, and hey, this happened. This had a material impact. It was a clear violation of the rules. At that point, it becomes a real Jim Harbaugh program problem because Jim Harbaugh was responsible for all the people below him. That’s a relatively new NCAA rule that the head coach is responsible for, you know, violations that happen for people below him. So at that point, that becomes his issue. I think, you know, the vacating of wins seems like that’s, if this is all proven out, that does feel like a fairly likely at least part of what could be the punishment. Again, if this all plays out. But if that all plays out, it doesn’t mean Ohio State one, it just means Michigan didn’t weigh in, according to the official rules. So I don’t I would assume there would be no, there would be no gold pans given out to those those teams, it would just be, you know, like the 2010. Ohio State Michigan game. Officially no one won that game.

Tony Gerdeman 14:29
Yeah, and I’m just thinking now you’re saying that I’ll just ask Jim mache when I see him on Saturday at the game because he’s part of that gold plant gold pants, a Leadership Council? And I’ll just be like, hey, you know, is this because the answer is gonna be No, but I would just like to hear from him because I think I asked him one other time. Would would, would Ohio State players get to pairs if they beat Ohio if they beat Michigan in the regular season then in the conference championship game? Yeah, I think even when when legends isn’t leader started, I probably sent him an email saying, Hey, would they would you get two pairs of gold pants? And I think the answer was at that time, like, we need to talk about that. This was not something, and maybe they have, maybe they talked about it, and there was never any need. But um, yeah, I wouldn’t expect any gold pants. I do think winds are going to be vague winds will be vacated, just based on. Honestly, I could see it happening just based on what has what we know, you know, what has been reported, in terms of the shear seems like this was happening. And so I think it’s a, I think it will, we’ll see more, but I think it’s an easy enough punishment that sounds severe by the NCAA. But also, everybody stood up to play the games, and it’s like, well, but you know, you have to take give the trophies back and things like that. So it carries pretend weight in the eyes of the NCAA, whereas, and then the program just continues on, you know, it’s like, it happened. We all like the way we talked about the 2010. Ohio State season. We all saw it, you know, so what is x? What exactly has been vacated? So I do expect vacated winds to happen, but I don’t know that it’s really going to materially destroy anybody.

Tom Orr 16:26
Yeah. And I guess the interesting question is, is that the big chunk of this is this just Jim Harbaugh gets a show cause and they vacate some wins? Or does the punishment go beyond that? And the tricky part of this, in addition to the fact that we don’t know what’s actually gonna get proven out as the investigation moves on, is that there is no prescribed penalty in the rulebook for for this type of violation, it doesn’t say, and if you do this, you get fill in the blank punishment. So the NCAA is going to be kind of making it up as they go. So that’s, that’s one of the reasons that this is all kind of, it’s all kind of one big gray area in some ways. Next year from Dan 1117711057. We all know Jimmy is a huge Mel Gibson guy, was it a mistake to refer to the film where a rule breaker was caught and severely punished. Instead, he could have compared himself to a broken man who protect his family from outside threats by defeating them with a common beverage.

Tony Gerdeman 17:24
This is one of my favorite questions of all time. Now, I don’t even I didn’t hear the Braveheart reference. I just saw other people referencing it, because I was gonna actually go back and check it out. But then I got distracted by the idea that Jim Harbaugh is Mel Gibson from signs which is one of the great scary jump movies of all time. And then it got me wondering, you know what, what other Mel Gibson movies could he be? I think I think there’s a conspiracy theory was the movie that Mel Gibson was in that seems to be maybe the Michigan fan base is seeing some some images smearing there between the conspiracies being thrown around. And that Mel Gibson movie, what if the winds are kidnapped? And Jim Harbaugh yells out give me back my wins something like that from ransom. What else not I don’t want to get into the post apocalyptic dystopian Mad Max realm of this. But I could see

Tom Orr 18:27
it. Tony, I was just trying to go through the Mel Gibson IMDb list and he’s been in a whole bunch of stuff recently that I’m sure was great. And I’m deeply regretting that missing it. I’m just going to read you two from two movies that came out in the year of our Lord 2022 featuring Mel Gibson, your Edie band it seems potentially potentially relevant. And what more Tony hotseat might maybe be somehow I don’t know maybe haven’t I don’t I haven’t seen either of those. So I can’t really provide any specifics on how the plots might might be related. Least the movie posters look good.

Tony Gerdeman 19:06
Here’s one from 2016 Maybe for Kirk ferrets called Blood father.

Tom Orr 19:13
All right, rip to a real one. The Brian ferentz era gone before. It’s time. Tony, do you think? Do you think the haters in the Iowa administration were just terrified that Brian was right on the verge of turning this baby around and getting this to a get it getting over that 25 point mark? It feels like it was so so close. Just right. Right there just one more week and the haters the haters would not be denied. i You hate to see someone who has worked so hard to get the position he has attained. Have that all taken away from him Tony by the haters. Next one from at Jordan in three some three. How many teams have both offensive and defensive coordinators who call plays from the sideline and neither in the box and this is? Of course right? little bit because of the 2022, Ohio State Michigan game where you had Sean Moore, and the defensive coordinator whose name is now escaping me. For some reason I can only think of Matt Weiss, who is the other co offensive coordinator, Jesse Minter. There we go, ik came up. But eventually, both Ron Moore and Jesse mentor were on the sidelines. That is kind of unusual. Jim Knowles, for example, up in the box for Ohio State. And so it’s it is a little unusual to have both offensive and defensive coordinators there on the sideline, you do remember, you gotta remember Matt Weiss was up in the box for Michigan last year, I believe, because I think Sean Moore was the only offensive coordinator down on the field. So they did have someone up in the box. But that is unusual enough that I think it’s a little, you know, that’s a little intriguing, I guess. Because, you know, the the implication here that if you want to read between the lines is Connor stallions as not, you know, he be due to his position. And he’s not allowed to be on a headset, so he could not relay that information upstairs. And if he was, you know, if you’re standing right next to the guy, you could relay that information immediately, and then have it immediately signaled in or called in from the sidelines. So that’s, that’s the reason that questions getting asked just in case you’re not reading between the lines.

Tony Gerdeman 21:16
Well, and I remember saying, I don’t know, 10 days ago, when this stuff was coming out in terms of the electronic equipment that was used. Like I could see stallions being on the sidelines talking to somebody, and then having the plays related, whether it goes from somebody else to him, it’s like, I’ve handed this off to somebody who can now use the electronic equipment. He was kind of a middleman in terms of the plays. But I, I wish I had more time to like, go through and look because we we started recording just a few minutes before we got this question. And I looked at Penn State, and their defensive coordinator, Manny Diaz, is on the field. mic here since the offensive coordinators up in the booth, I was just looking to see like I looked at for Georgia to see and look to their game notes to see where they were and they’re not listed. So like if you had some time to just go through and see how many play callers are both on the field. I don’t think it’s a lot for either for for both of those guys to be on the field. But it is an interesting question. And this whole thing just sparks interesting questions with that, which then takes you down other rabbit holes, which then gets the conspiracy theory movie placed over our own head, in which case you might want to use the tinfoil tinfoil hat from signs. That was the other Mel Gibson movie mentioned there. And then once you get that tinfoil hat, you’re free from anybody. I don’t know, I don’t even know where to go with a hacking into your brain to get your thoughts.

Tom Orr 22:52
I’m sure Mel Gibson has been in a hacking movie at some point. He’s he’s been a prolific actor for a long enough time that I’m sure he’s done some. Some a movie where people are typing furiously in a dark room and yelling and hands at their TVs at their computer monitors. It must have happened at some point.

Tony Gerdeman 23:08
Actually, it did, Tom that he wasn’t a hacking movie. It’s called The Patriot where he famously hacked up a bunch of people with his hatchet.

Tom Orr 23:17
Take that British next one at 10 gentle to the allegation, how to Michigan’s future opponents move forward preparing for them knowing how much has been stolen?

Tony Gerdeman 23:28
I think that’s a fascinating question that each opponent will have to answer and and they should be free to answer it or they should want you to answer it freely. So they know what it’s like to go through this. But so much of this is hidden behind the veil of the coaching profession and not wanting to throw other programs under the bus or even talk about other programs. But it’s something that everybody is going to have to deal with and something that they are dealing with. And I mentioned this shoot a Sunday morning I tweeted out like the fact that people are Michigan fans are dismissing the the ordeal of going through new plays of opponents having to come up with new signals or whatever. And they’re like, ah, you know, just everybody changes from week to week anyways, if you don’t, then you know, you’re an idiot. And it’s like you’re dismissing the fact that what you’ve what Michigan has seemingly done what the big 10 has warned Michigan could be doing, you know, with the signal stealing and the fact that hey, now you’ve been warned you might want to change things. It’s like it ignores the fact that they have to go and change things. And so I think this is obviously just creates more work and creates more focused work and with a focus more on this that’s taking some focus off of the actual preparation. And so it’s, it’s unfortunate for the programs have to go through that and if you say that then you are considered a um Well, I don’t know what you’re considered I guess you’ll just get a lot of responses to your Twitter’s and cry harder.

Tom Orr 25:06
Yet Tony, how is your cope level right now I feel like

Tony Gerdeman 25:09
epic amounts of kopien. At that does feel

Tom Orr 25:13
I was about to diagnose you but I’m not actually a medical doctor. So I didn’t want to do make any put anything officially on the record but I, I was definitely getting that vibe from you. Yeah, it feels like this is this is an opportunity for Ohio State to, you know, no disrespect to Rutgers and Michigan State and Minnesota, but they are Michigan State, Minnesota and Rutgers. So it feels like Ohio State has an opportunity to like just go out and go to wristbands to like change, change it up, like mix it up, you have some time to, you know, if you spend an hour of practice, each of the next three weeks or two hours of practice each of the next three weeks, you are probably still going to beat those three teams. Now that is an hour or two that you could be putting towards Michigan prep, and they normally probably wouldn’t be putting towards Michigan prep. But you can you know, you can probably get it you can probably figure it out, you can use meeting time to go through stuff, you’re just gonna have to switch it up a little bit. And you know, what, have a different wristband for every quarter so that by the time they figure out what you’re doing, you’re changing wristbands again and whatever like it. There are ways there are workarounds here. Yes, it is a you know, it is a pain. And yes, you’re spending time that is a you know, that is a limited resource. You only have so much time in the day, so many days in the week, so many hours in the day to do stuff and you’re spending time doing this stuff. But you know, net now, you know, you really you have to get it kind of straightened out this year. So, you know, and it’s going to be fascinating to see what happens with Michigan’s defensive, defensive stats, and especially defensive stats as they move forward, because they have looked so dominant this year. And it’s just gonna be so interesting to see how does you know how much of this changes, if any, in the coming weeks, as they’re playing better competition, but also, people are probably a little more up to speed on what they need to do to potentially combat what Michigan has maybe been doing over the last couple of years. It’ll be interesting to see how much stuff changes. And then if stuff changes, how much is attributed to better competition versus Hey, the Intel thing is not working as much as it used to so

Tony Gerdeman 27:18
well. Yeah. And just to remind people, it’s not just stealing signs, everybody still signs this was going to various venues and recording signs, and then using that information to steal signs, and to interpret them to break down and I’m gonna say codebreaking because it’s that’s just it’s it’s it’s that part of it is a joke, that kind of messaging as a joke. Don’t forget, like, it’s not just sign stealing. It’s much more involved than that much more. It’s sign stealing is free. What they were doing was not in terms of what kind of stylings was doing. That was costing him money, seemingly out of his own pocket.

Tom Orr 28:05
Yeah, that that will. Yeah, I’m going to be so interested to see how that all, how that all shakes out moving forward. Because if you see a significant change, yeah, there’s going to be a real, you know, there’s gonna be a real interesting to see how that narrative plays out nationally. And if there’s no change, it’ll be interesting to see how that narrative plays out nationally, that Oh, see, it wasn’t a big deal or OC, it was a huge deal or OC. They’re just playing better teams now. So that’ll be that’ll be fun. Finally, something to talk about in the week in the month of the Michigan game. Speaking of talking stuff to talk about, from Professor John Frank, what should we make of the Harbaugh contract news, the Harbaugh contract news of course, being that there was a report in The Wall Street Journal that Michigan had pulled Jim Hardbox, a new contract offer that would have made him the highest paid coach in the big 10. The syndicate, I believe, was the word that they used. Jim Harbaugh then said it was not accurate. That it was you know that our tweet from our buddy Mark Kuhn says Jim Harbaugh says the report of the rescinded contract is not accurate. So, I guess, then the question is, okay, well, is it signed yet? No. Is it still on the table? We don’t they don’t think we have an indication that it really like if he wanted to sign that today. That’s necessarily so you know, maybe this is more a little bit more of a semantic argument. That rescinded is like, well, it was taken off the table and is unavailable and the implication is forever. And maybe it was, you know, maybe really, it was temporarily withdrawn from the table but still could go back on the table. I mean, to me, you can you can play board games all you want and like, no, no, no, that’s not accurate. Like, Well, what about isn’t it you know, what, set the record straight for us? What happened? Well, no, I don’t want to go into details like okay, that’s fine. But you know, I think I think my best read of the situation is if Jim Harbaugh decided Today that he wanted to sign that contract, a copy of that contract would not necessarily be made available to him by Michigan, for him to sign. So therefore, whatever word you want to put on that it is not necessarily there right at this moment, which represents, it seems like a change of status of that contract offer.

Tony Gerdeman 30:23
And I think what you would get from the Michigan side is that the contract was never exactly ready just yet. And then once this comes down, they put a hold on finalizing it. And you’ll just wait. But we had been hearing for weeks that a contract was ready or was going to be put in front of Jim Harbaugh, and an extension, big extension. And now that is no longer happening. And so maybe rescinded put on hold the it’s all semantics. I think it’s much of it is semantics. But even even Jim Harbaugh has, quote on that, it’s I wouldn’t say that’s accurate. And we say that, that is also a phrase that we use when there are half truths, half lies, that sort of thing, where well, there, that’s only 92% accurate. So I wouldn’t say that’s entirely accurate. And so there’s some wordplay in this as well, I think, but I’m with you there. I don’t think he could sign a contract right now. But also, I don’t know that there was a contract to sign like I finished contract to sign. And I think the finishing of it is maybe what got delayed, but also that maybe the thing that got rescinded was the desire to finish the contract to put it in front of him. And it’s just levels and steps that first must understand this. While it’s like, well, we’re not going to do this part right now. Because we want to see how this plays out. So yeah, that’s a bunch of semantics. I think. And if there if, if you wanted to sign a contract right now, I’m with you. I don’t know that he could

Tom Orr 32:02
write and, you know, does that has the plan for the plan or the schedule for the contract changed in any way? It feels like there’s probably something to the effect that it has. So yeah, at that point, it’s just kind of us, you know, using whatever word you want to use. And Jim Harbaugh does have a way with words, Tony, because the next question from row 145676 Thoughts on Harbaugh’s presser and his discussion of field corn versus houseplants?

Tony Gerdeman 32:31
Yeah. He was asked about playing at night in I guess what will be November. And he said they’ve got a team that can play it, you know, 12, o’clock, 337 39, or whatever all conditions. And he said, It’s like field corn, as opposed to being a house planet. Nothing against Thomas plants. Obviously, he doesn’t want to get the house plant lobby angry with him. This is a man of the people. He knows what he’s doing nothing against house plants, they have their function that can be beautiful in the home, they can bring great beauty and value to a home. But the field corn, just drop a seed in a crack of a sidewalk in a little burrow down and come up with any energy that it can find. And then rise up in a stock like fashion. And just start producing. I would say that’s what our team is more like, time my first bit as I’m reading through this. I disagree with calling a stock of corn stock like it’s an actual stock.

Tom Orr 33:28
It is an actual stock. Yeah, it’s like that cars car like like, yeah, I technically yes. I just I find his different ways of talking about stuff. So fascinating. We were up in Arbor for the press conference the week, the Monday before the Ohio State Michigan game last year. And he talked about them. His team as I think it was a happy band of warriors on a happy journey. And that was, it was it was like I don’t think I’ve ever heard a college football coach use either of those halves of that phrase, let alone together, let alone the week of the biggest game of the season. And you know, I mean, they came out and won the game. So I guess they were had they had reason to be happy warriors and to be that their journey was happy until they got to the Fiesta Bowl, and then it was less happy. But you know, they they had, you know, they had a good roadmap for that game. It sounds like so, you know, that’s reason enough to be happy. Yeah, he’s just he has such a unique way of talking and communicating. And it’s, like, how many how many coaches do we cover where it’s like, you have the complete football robots and you put those kinda to one side. And you have the people who are just kind of like the normal people where you feel like you could sit down and just have a conversation with them and you would, you know, not feel like you were talking to a robot. And then there are just the people who are just a little different, and Jim Harbaugh was not a But Paul robot necessary necessarily, he’s just, he’s just a little different. And you talk to people who cover the team and you hear the word weird a lot. And that’s, you know, I think there’s a, you know, maybe more of a judgement to that word than you might, you know, people would necessarily put their names on publicly, but it’s just, he’s a different cat. And that comes out in all sorts of different ways, including our, our team is field corn instead of Hay House plant. You wonder, Tony, who does he think which team does he think is a houseplant? I have thoughts.

Tony Gerdeman 35:43
That’s, that is very interesting. I, that’s a great thought, Tom, I wouldn’t have expected to go down this rabbit hole. But in terms of his robot, NIS. It is he’s kind of like a robot if it was designed and programmed by the Old Farmer’s Almanac, with a lot of these things that he says, with the nervous bird and the birds, worms and wouldn’t be afraid of birds with guns or whatever, you know, worms with guns aren’t afraid of birds. Or perhaps muskets. If we’re talking about the Old Farmer’s Almanac. I do I would like to know what what he is reading because he does come up with some stuff that’s like, that’s really interesting. And the field corn one is because it just isn’t he has a lot of isms that I would like to know where they come from, whether it’s a an ism of the day calendar, which that’s a fantastic idea, I should look into that and just steal like Old Farmer’s Almanac stuff and throw it into chat GPT and be like, fancy it up. modernize it, if you will. But I, I get a kick out of some of the stuff he says other stuff is like when he’s talking football, or talking about his players talking about his team, unless he uses these analogies. I get I gloss over a lot of it, you know, because it’s it is stunted and stilted and like the very coach like answers, but when he goes into this stuff, that to me provides more insight, the happy warrior stuff, this stuff. Every now and again. They’ll throw something in and it’s like, okay, this guy has a personality.

Tom Orr 37:28
Yeah, it’s a personality. It’s just it’s just very off the beaten path for a college football coach. And that’s not necessarily bad. It’s a little off the beaten path for a non college football coach two. So it’s just it is a very different. It’s a very different experience to cover a Jim Harbaugh press conference, we go to those big 10 media days, every summer and we hear you know, all 14 Big 10 coaches talk and there’s a wide variety of personalities and levels of conversational comfort and all that kind of stuff. And Jim Harbaugh was always on like one end of that, that range of coaches in terms of what it’s like talking to him. And so you never He is a little Tony, like a box of chocolates because you never know what you’re gonna get. Last one from D shaken Watson. I know you all quotes don’t want to speculate, close quote, parentheses still true exclamation point, close parentheses. But it’s what the fans want Tony. So okay, so assuming things go the way they are appearing to be headed in Ann Arbor. Are there any recruits in this class or 2025? That would be of interest to Ohio State? So, you know, I mean, I guess, for the purposes of this question, let’s assume that after this season, and you know, maybe before the end of the season, it becomes apparent that Jim Harbaugh is not going to stay at Michigan. So for the purposes of this conversation, the class of 2020, for every Michigan recruit is potentially open for, you know, for Ohio State to pursue. It feels like Ohio State doesn’t have that many spots, they need to fill in the class, they need to add another offensive lineman or two, maybe, you know, I think they’d like to add maybe what another corner or maybe, I mean, they’re the classes in relatively good shape. And other safety may be I mean, there’s not an, you know, several of the offensive linemen in that Michigan class are from Ohio, and don’t have Ohio State offer. So, you know, you get the sense Ohio State probably doesn’t, you know, has kind of looked and considered it and not decided that was something that they were gonna be, you know, interested in poaching. You know, I mean, I’m just looking at the list right now, Andrew Sprague from Kansas City, Missouri as their highest ranked recruit. He has a tackle number 55. Nationally, I mean that we’ll have to he could probably use a tackle in this class. I don’t have any idea I have not one of the recruiting guys so I don’t have any ice sense for, you know, is that someone who was camped at Ohio State and there’s any kind of relationship I don’t know. But you know, you go down the list and Jaden Davis, Ohio State has a quarterback in the class or Noland, who’s ranked I think higher than Jaden Davis’s Jordan Marshall running back. He’s from Ohio, Ohio State has at least one running back, maybe two that are ranked higher than Jordan Marshall right now. And they’re in relatively good shape at most spots. I know, just I Edmond is a name that we had sort of heard in terms of cornerback, but I don’t I don’t think that there’s Oh, I just he just doesn’t have that many holes to fill for 2020 For that, you know, they need to do that like Tim Beckman like camp outside Penn State thing and, and just try and recruit people from you know, from campus. 2025, Michigan only has two commits. So that’s a relatively short list. One of them is an in state defensive lineman and a cornerback out of the state of Florida. So, you know, I don’t think Tony I see anything that between Ohio State’s relatively short list of needs 324 And Michigan’s relatively short list of commits for 25. I don’t know that I necessarily see a ton of opportunity here.

Tony Gerdeman 41:09
Yeah, and the corners Chris, you all from seminar Madonna. So that’s where you know, Ohio State has some inroads there with Jeremiah Smith. But if you if you look at the quarterback situation, next in the 2025 class, they already have a commitment from Blake would be but then three of the top four corners in that class. I’m just gonna read some names to you timestamp, tell me if these are familiar Trey McNutt Buckeye legacy. He’s the number four corner, Dorian brew, who was from Ohio, but moved to Texas. So that may be a little tougher. He was he’s number three, Devin Sanchez, the number two corner number seven player in the nation. I know Ohio State, and those who cover recruiting feel pretty good about the buckeyes chances with him. So they’ve got some guys that are more likely more likely than somebody that is already committed to Michigan in terms of that situation. And who would we be surprised to probably be surprised if there’s anything that comes out about this, or there’s any punishment handed down before signing day. And I would also be surprised if anybody puts off signing day from December to February, you know, I that’s becoming more and more rare. If you’re committed now you’re generally going to sign in December.

Tom Orr 42:22
Right. And, you know, if you do have a whole coaching staff leave and again, Laura, this is purely speculative. This is purely based on the hypothetical from the question. If you did have Jim Harbaugh leaves, and both coordinators leave and you know, there’s there’s some looming something rather from the NCAA, you can get out of your letter of intent, we have seen people get out of letters of intent with coaching cert changes and that kind of thing in the past, that is no longer. You know, as soon as you sign it, you have to sit out a year if you that the rules have changed and a lot of that stuff. And, you know, so I don’t think that’s necessarily I’m not, I’m not expecting a neutron bomb to fall on Michigan, you know, anytime between now and signing day. So I think this is purely a hypothetical, as you know, but it, it is possible. I just I’m with you, I don’t think that there is a real high likelihood that there’s going to be such a massive earth shattering whatever it is that comes down between now and signing day that this is any kind of a short term situation that we will need to deal with in something other than a hypothetical.

Tony Gerdeman 43:33
And we had a few other questions that we will parse off to other shows, and we’ll answer likely on Tuesday anyway, regarding some of this stuff. But we just had so many Michigan questions that we just wanted to keep it focused to that. So I want to thank you all for tuning in a reminder, please find us at bucket You want to become a member that’s a great way to support what we do. It’s a great way to show support. And it’s an encouraging thing for all of us. And this time of the holidays that are coming up specifically time. Halloween and Thanksgiving. The two fall holidays,

Tom Orr 44:07
Halloween, the traditional gift for Halloween and membership to buck i

Tony Gerdeman 44:12
And then Thanksgiving, you you thank the people by giving another membership. So that and also If you want to go ahead and like this video that you’re watching right now that would be great. And of course, hit the bell to be notified. And if you have not subscribed to the channel yet, please do so. Helps the algorithms find us and as we know algorithms, an important word in football sphere right now. So thank you all for tuning in. And we’ll talk to you guys later

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